Thanks michael
I find it quite interesting all this talk about the folks at the meeting (Tim, Amanda, Mike, et al) 'lying'. The problem they are having is one that Zack has continually attacked in various forums and in the FSP forums:
Zacks Position (in my words, of course):
If you try to 'hide' what you are, or 'sugar-coat' libertarianism in any way, you will ultimately be called to the floor on this and not only have to defend your beliefs, but also have to defend your lies. Either you are a libertarian, with ALL that it implies, or you are not - there is no 'middle ground'.At first, I was against Zack's position, mainly because I was use to giving way to the seemingly unlimited opposition to my beliefs. But as I researched more, understood more, and fully thought out what my principles were - it became much easier (and guilt-free) to simply state my 'real' views.
Tim cringes at the thought of standing up in front of a mixed audience and plainly stating 'Yes, I believe that prostitution should not be considered a crime' - and since he can't do this, he will lose respect from BOTH sides of the issue, as we are seeing here.
My only hope is that since Tim is/was also a part of the FTP folks as well as the FSP membership recruiter, that you view his statements as reflective of his role in the FSP, not the FTP.
so, to state things as plain as I can:
YES, the ultimate goal of the FTP is to create a majority libertarian presence in a politically powerful area (town, county, or state) in an effort to prevent further government encroachment on basic rights and to repeal those areas of government which do infringe on the same rights. Two methods were finally decided upon...
(1) attract a significant percentage of the local population (perhaps 10-20%) of 'newcomer' libertarians and actively pursue debate and discussions with the 'locals' in an effort to persuade them over to our beliefs. This is supposedly being attempted in Rochester. The Rochester group split off from us more 'hard-core' #2 groupies early this year and the main proponent is/was the owner of the FreeTownProject list that was locked (handle 'libertarian40').
(2) This group (my group, the ones you are up in arms about) believes that the first groups premises are totally flawed and nothing will ever come of it as witnessed by the past 30 years of 'persuassion' accomplished by the Nat'Lib Party..zilch. We believe that 'persuassion' will only ultimately garner a few folks to our cause... so we advocate attracting enough libertarians to 'make up the difference' between local libs and statists to turn the tide in the libs favor. This does indeed come across as something 'underhanded' or 'unfair' to many folks(libs and non-libs), including those in group #1.
One of the advantages of dealing with us, the crazy #2's, is that you will know where we stand, we accept the friction which will inevitably follow when statists and others who do not believe in our views are faced with our firm stands on issues based moral, economic, and ethical grounds. And there WILL be those who hate us for our politics and thoughts. If libs decide to move to Grafton, then it will be in everyones best interest to understand each other as much as possible and try our best to be civil and humane.
graftonites who vehemently oppose libertarian policys will face the same exact situation that libs have faced across the country for 30 years... being in a position of weak political power. I believe so strongly in my views that I am willing to relocate in order to actually have a chance at seeing people and policys that reflect me, something that libertarians will never accomplish by being a 5% minority party in this supposed 'representative' government of 'ours'. Heck, the mormons did it with Utah, the lefties did it with Vermont (kinda), and we will try. Don't worry, no rights will be violated or laws broken, everything on the up and up.
So there it is in Black and White. My fellow FSP members will claim that I and the FTP are going about this is the absolute wrong method, that we are actually hindering the progress of the FSP, we are 'saboteurs' and various other labels. But I can sleep at night. I will stand by my beliefs that zoning, public education, taxation, welfare, eminent domain, victimless crime laws, etc are all wrong and immoral acts of government against the citizens and I will speak and vote accordingly.
michael
PS: no children or animals were harmed during the creation of this post/rant
10 Comments:
"If libs decide to move to Grafton, then it will be in everyones best interest to understand each other as much as possible and try our best to be civil and humane."
- michael
Thank you, Michael, that had to be said.
Some of these folks think of themselves as libertarians, and entitle themselves to the benefits of such, and yet they have shown themselves to be unqualified to practice anarchy. Let me explain.
Here is a definition of 'libertarian':
"one who upholds the principles of individual liberty of thought and action"
This is actually a noble and worthy idea. But in order to apply it, one must establish anarchy.
Anarchy means 'absence of government' or 'no outside governing influence or authority'. Anarchy is in fact the most advanced system of governance of all. It entails self-government, that is, government of each individual in a society by that individual himself or herself. It demands the HIGHEST STANDARD of self conduct and consideration. Anarchy has always failed in the past because someone has failed to adhere to this standard. When the standard is not adhered to, laws get put in place in order to protect the innocent, and then follow enforcement and outside authority. (Of course, anarchy has gotten a bad rap because some have used it to simply disrupt and destroy.) Inherent in the legitimate practice of anarchy, as opposed to the idea of anarchy, is the same precept as that expressed and held by those who practice Wicca. That is:
An it harm none, do what you will.
In other words, one may do anything they wish IF and ONLY IF it in no way harms any other person , creature, or thing. That is a high standard, and it certainly does not allow every sort of behavior. It requires that the individual establish a state of integration within themselves of the highest order. It is not present in someone who feels free to think of another as a 'piss ant', let alone to call them that. Nor does one find it in someone who thinks of a group of local people, who just want to know what is happening, as 'stupid'. I would suggest that at least some of these folks have more self development to undertake before they consider forming any sort of free town or the like. If they are courageous enough to commit to some self-examination, they would see that this is so, and get on with it. When they have accomplished that, then perhaps they may come back and present their case again in a civilized manner.
5:49 AM
Which Michael is this? Michael the printer? Or Mike Lorrey?
9:08 AM
The Printer.
I'm pretty sure Lorrey has never posted here with his name.
9:40 AM
as it stands, right now, there is no way to garner your trust of us, or our trust of you. That will come from direct interaction, our children playing with yours, meeting at some shindig, etc. Human things, not internet things. So far you have only had the pleasure of meeting 'our philosophy', but not us. Mr. Hull, it appears, will be the first Grafton resident from 'us'. Meet him, talk to him, see what he is about and judge him THEN. He is quite a silent hermit, as I understand, so I would gather that such interpersonal relations would have to be instigated by you. As others move to Grafton, they will probably be alot more socially active and easier to get a 'read' on.
Re: handing over your government to 'us'
we would presume no such thing, we are not violent invaders stealing 'your' government by force. We are folks, just like you, who desire to be left alone. If there are any 'petty hitlers', they will show themselves through their actions - no need for us or anyone to label specific persons. 'Your' government will continue on as it is, except whenever it attempts to infringe on the rights of its citizens - only then will you even become aware that there are libertarians in your midsts.
BTW: this 'swarm' of people moving is all just talk and fantasy. If it occurs, it will proceed relatively slowly, each person moving when they are able and if they desire to. Its not like there is some truck with 200 folks on it pointed straight at Grafton!!! The ONLY people who will be inconvienenced will be those who desire to control others through government... no libertarian wishes to shove 'donkeysex' down your collective throats, or parade prostitutes down main street! These fears are being fostered by those within your town who are diametrically opposed to the concepts of individual liberty and responsibility - I would advise that you all watch each mover and their actions and see what reality is - people, just like you, with families, hobbies, talents, desires, loves, and values... people who are so fed up with others telling them what to do and how to do it that they are willing to move to Grafton... that speaks alot to the integrity and principles of these folks, wouldn't you agree?
michael
BTW: Please join us at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GraftonCrisis
it appears that a local Selectman has joined and a few others, I think this bodes well for increasing the communication and understanding between us.
4:12 PM
"Helloooo Miss Bittlefrumpy"
A man arrives home after a hard day's work. While greeting his wife and young son on the steps to his house he notices his nosey neighbor Miss Bittlefrumpy looking out her window in his direction from behind half drawn blinds, and can only roll his eyes after greeting her with a nod and a 'helloooo Miss Bittlefrumpy'.
He's an avid homebrewer and breaks out a sixpack of his own bottled house special which he brewed in a 20 gallon beer still in his backyard workshop. Exhausted and sweaty, he decides to sit on his front porch to enjoy the early evening summer breeze along with his dog, Hops the Killer Chihuahua. He peacefully relaxes in his rockingchair, sipping on a cold one.
Life is good.
A man arrives home after a hard day's work. While greeting his wife and young son on the steps to his house he notices his nosey neighbor Miss Bittlefrumpy looking out her window in his direction from behind half drawn blinds, and can only roll his eyes after greeting her with a nod and a 'helloooo Miss Bittlefrumpy'.
He's an avid horticulturist and breaks out a skunky bud of his own pruned house special which he harvested from a pound's worth of plantlets he grows on his kitchen windowsill. Exhausted and sweaty, he decides to sit on his front porch to enjoy the early evening summer breeze along with his dog, Hempster the Killer Chihuahua. He peacefully relaxes in his rockingchair, toking on a tight one.
Life is good. Or so it seems.
20 minutes passes by when he hears a rumble approaching from down the road, in the direction of the Big City. He stops rocking and stands to attention when he sees an Armoured Assault Vehicle, a S.W.A.T. van and a dozen Police cars not merely speed up to his driveway but onto his front lawn. Three dozen paramilitary commandos dressed in Black Full Body Armour leap from their vehicles and swarm the porch and house perimeter. He is thrown to the ground, knee on his back, boot on his neck. His dog shot. His wife stripsearched on the front lawn and his son swept away by Child Protective Services. His house is ransacked and a Legal Notice reading "Civil Forfeiture: Property of The State" is tacked to what's left of his family's front door.
Stunned and wide-eyed, as he is driven away in the back of a Police car he notices Miss Bittlefrumpy looking out her window, smiling in his direction from behind half drawn blinds, and he can only roll his eyes.
7:18 PM
http://praxeology.net/unblog05-04.htm#14
We're bringing it to Grafton, New Hampshire and beyond.
9:20 PM
I think that is a cross I am willing to bear - I make friends fast, not because of my political philosophy or my beliefs, but because of my character...(at least thats my perception...). Every person that moves to Grafton under the FTP banner will undergo more scrutiny than otherwise... so be it. Eventually, we will either prove to you our worth as friends and family, or we will al be socially isolated and outcast which would mean failure, in large part, because we also desire to be part of the community we reside in...
michael
2:50 AM
Hey Grafton shitbags. THE PLAN IS TO TAKE YOU OVER BY FORCE! Don't get confused. I'm an FSP member and we talk about it all the time. We also formulate stories to spoon-feed this blog and twist your little hillbilly minds into our way of thinking. Haha, you are puppets.
You haven't had an original complaint or issue, that has not been planted by an FSP representative since the first week of inception. The funny thing is, I can tell you this now, and still be in control of you by the end of the day. The lights are a little dim in Grafton, and they will soon go out!
There is no plan to move to Grafton. Do you understand that shitbags?? Understand, when I say "shitbags" I'm talking about everyone in NH, not just Grafton. The plan is to TAKE OVER, migration is not necessary, who the fuck would live in Grafton on purpose anyway? BTW, NH wasn't chosen because it is the most " free state" it was chosen because the people who occupy it are generally the most ignorant residents that occupy any state and they are as defenseless as school girls when it comes to politics. You are completly predictable with every action you take. This blog is all you can do to defend yourselves against the impending take over?? That is why Grafton was chosen. Do you think the same response would be offered out west??? Not a chance, they would have skinned us alive for throwing Zack at them, but you people are great, you take it right in the ass and ask for more. Zack was great wasn't he?? I don't think anyone could have done it better. You responded with the usual predictability, just like what was planned. Haha, boy, it was beautiful!
Grafton will be TAKEN OVER! don't you worry about that. The snare has already been tripped by your very own top official. It's all over but the publicity for the next endeavor. This will go down in history as one of the most profound political coups in America's history, and ya'll git to be a part of it, so, look alive! Everyone is watching.
8:14 PM
Hey Grafton shitbags. THE PLAN IS TO TAKE YOU OVER BY FORCE! Don't get confused. I'm an FSP member and we talk about it all the time. We also formulate stories to spoon-feed this blog and twist your little hillbilly minds into our way of thinking. Haha, you are puppets.
You haven't had an original complaint or issue, that has not been planted by an FSP representative since the first week of inception. The funny thing is, I can tell you this now, and still be in control of you by the end of the day. The lights are a little dim in Grafton, and they will soon go out!
There is no plan to move to Grafton. Do you understand that shitbags?? Understand, when I say "shitbags" I'm talking about everyone in NH, not just Grafton. The plan is to TAKE OVER, migration is not necessary, who the fuck would live in Grafton on purpose anyway? BTW, NH wasn't chosen because it is the most " free state" it was chosen because the people who occupy it are generally the most ignorant residents that occupy any state and they are as defenseless as school girls when it comes to politics. You are completly predictable with every action you take. This blog is all you can do to defend yourselves against the impending take over?? That is why Grafton was chosen. Do you think the same response would be offered out west??? Not a chance, they would have skinned us alive for throwing Zack at them, but you people are great, you take it right in the ass and ask for more. Zack was great wasn't he?? I don't think anyone could have done it better. You responded with the usual predictability, just like what was planned. Haha, boy, it was beautiful!
Grafton will be TAKEN OVER! don't you worry about that. The snare has already been tripped by your very own top official. It's all over but the publicity for the next endeavor. This will go down in history as one of the most profound political coups in America's history, and ya'll git to be a part of it, so, look alive! Everyone is watching.
9:45 PM
I think I hear your mom calling you. It's getting dark, you better go home.
12:44 PM
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