How Many FTPers?
How many Free Town Project members are there? Tim has said he expects over 100 FSP members to move to Grafton, NH within a year or two. Robert Hull has bought some property in Grafton (237 acres). Tim plans on buying land from Bob. Jay Denonville would like to open a campground/trailer park for fellow FSP members. I also saw they would like to get students and truckers to become Grafton, NH residents so they can be a part of the Libertarian voting block.
16 Comments:
Happy Days! Jay quit the FTP and the FSP today!
How many more will fall???? They're eating themselves alive...kinda like their mascot, huh?
8:14 PM
Jay, does that mean you will not be a cook at the pork feast?
9:43 PM
I would say that there are only 8-15 Free Town Project members... and quite an ineffective bunch so far. Only Hull has had the balls/money to 'lay it on the line' so far, the rest? Who knows...
michael
6:09 AM
I just got to NH from AZ,I'm glad I packed my guns
4:35 PM
thats just great, 'here we come, guns blazing' - really helping out my efforts here, Mr. Anonymous...
well, there is no accounting for tact
BTW: I don't want to give you the wrong impression... libertarians are probably the most gun-toting group in america (percentage wise). Self defense is a good thing and we all believe in being armed for self-protection.
BTW: Since I have been answering all these questions for ya all... how about you guys answering one of mine?.... how is the 'single female' situation in Grafton?
michael
5:32 PM
something else I wanted to address... this whole 'secrecy' thing, and its opposit, the 'announcing' thing...
secrecy was decided upon while determining the free town so as not to unnaturally inflate the local real estate prices - if the entire town knew a bunch of folks were coming they would raise prices possibly.
the 'announcement' was done by Tim without consulting anyone and he took grief in doing so as most folks were still debating various aspects aand looking into differnt land purchases.
there was no intent to subvert the local population or sneak in. In fact, Zack is ALWAYS outspoken about stating clearly intentions so as to possibly garner the attraction of other libertarians to join us - kinda a recruiting effort.
michael
5:55 PM
Well,everyone is lying now except for Jay and Zack. I thought you said you wanted to attract families to Grafton. Now you are saying Zack was in charge or recruitment?
9:46 PM
twisting my words around serve you no good, sir/ma'am...
I said that Zack's stated purpose as to why he conducted himself in such a manner as to attract his version of 'pure' libertarians... I never said he was 'in charge of recruitment' - Why would you so blatantly lie?
My own method of 'attracting' others is quite different - more family oriented and supportive. Others had more financial type investment ideas... do you get the picture? This is not some cohesive group hell-bent on the destruction of Grafton, but, rather a very loose-knit cadre of folks from varying walks of life (from 20 yr olds to 70 yr olds) with different ideas and visions of what freedom for themselves would entail...
I would be more scared of a pack of rabbits (is a group of rabbits even called a pack? Or just a 'coat'...)
michael
11:13 PM
>I never said he was 'in charge of recruitment' - Why would you so blatantly lie?
It was a question, not a statement. No one said Zack was in charge of recruitment. Why would you so blatantly lie?
11:18 AM
I am more scared of the people you are trying to get to come to 'Donkeysexville'. Don't be suprised when you attract shitbags. But that is none of your business, right? You don't care, as long as they vote with you, right?
Sounds like you are trying to attract anyone that will vote with you. Am I wrong?
I don't fear rabbits.
11:23 AM
>secrecy was decided upon while determining the free town so as not to unnaturally inflate the local real estate prices - if the entire town knew a bunch of folks were coming they would raise prices possibly.
-------------------
An increase in demand would cause the prices to natuarlly inflate. Supply and demand, you know.
I thought you guys were all about the free market. I guess you are all about the free market, exept if it caused you to pay more.
Sounds like fraud, if you thought the increased demand would raise the prices, and that was your reasoning. So, you don't believe in the free market. Very intresting.
11:30 AM
Actually, you touch upon a debate we were having regarding exactly this issue. Zacks position was that it was better to contact and alert property owners that buyers were available for their property - this would increase the supply of the market and would counter our obvious increase in demand. I was more along the lines that we should study the current offerings, without 'tipping our hat' just yet, and make some sort of 'group' offering (surprisingly, I was advocating a 'centralized' approach whereas in most areas I am totally 'decentralized'). Either method is os far removed from possible fraud - we would offer and counter offer as we desired and the sellers would be paid the agreed upon price. Any information we have regarding the future or other things are ours to act upon as we please and we do not have any obligation to share this information. Fraud is when one presents a trade which is not reflective of the actual trade: for instance if I agree to sell you 2 apples for $1 each and you agree and then proceed to give me $2 and I give you back an apple and an orange, THEN I have committed fraud. Usually fraud INCLUDES a specific intent to decieve or withhold information, BUT, the actual act of withholding information is NOT the crime.
If you would desire further studies in things of economic nature, I would be very glad to do so as it is one of my personal hobbies/loves - I don't think that this blog is condusive(sp?) to that end tho...
michael
12:03 PM
No thanks, I hate economics, and money for that matter. The root of all evil.
To be clear, I do not think it is fraud, but I would think a lib who loves the free market would. Why try to decieve the sell about the demand? Oh, for your own benifit. Nothing wrong with being greedy. That is how capitalism works.
12:23 PM
Mr./Mrs. Anonymous posted:
===================================================
I am more scared of the people you are trying to get to come to 'Donkeysexville'. Don't be suprised when you attract shitbags. But that is none of your business, right? You don't care, as long as they vote with you, right?
Sounds like you are trying to attract anyone that will vote with you. Am I wrong?
I don't fear rabbits.
==================================================
please don't put words or actions into my mouth, I don't know exactly what a 'shitbag' is as you refer to them, but I can guess that it defines someone who is basically socially unacceptable and probably doesn't respect the rights of others. No, I do not wish to attract such folk to Grafton, or anywhere else I might live. I have found that the folks you refer to come in basically two flavors:
(1) Socially Disgusting, but non-rights/law breaking
(2) Socially Disgusting, AND a rights infringer/law-breaker
These types of folks are out there in society and we all ultimately cross there path in our travels in life. So, the question isn't specifically about the 'FTPers' bringing in or perhaps attracting these types of folks, the question is what do we do as people to prevent ALL shitbags (either brought in by FTPers or who happen to wander in on their own) from having a detremental influence in our lives.
In the case of #2, the problem takes care of itself as these folks wind up in jail and thats the end of the story.
The case of #1 is much more complicated. Since these gross, socially unaccepted folks are not violating any laws then we are also required to respect those same laws. What we are NOT required to do is to associate with them in the least - we can refuse to serve them in our restaurants, our hardware stores, our gas stations. We can refuse to patronize their 'shitbag' places of business. We can produce grand effect WITHOUT violence OR violation of their rights as humans. We might even let them know what it is about them that make them so detestable - they just might want to make some personal changes in the face of the reality we present to them...
So, sure, I am positive that there is the possibility of a few disgusting folks tagging along to Grafton under the ill-concieved perception that they will be 'free' to be totally rude socially... but they will quickly scurry back to their holes quickly enough.
Now, it could also be said that you, the current Grafton Residents, could use these same such tactics against FTPers. This is very true, and I expect some sort of low level social resistance to develop. The difference is that I, as a person, am rather likeable - I also know that others in the FTP group are also both interesting and likeable. You will meet us. You will not see the monsters you are currently having nightmares about. And we will become part of your town and culture - I bet we will end up changing each other as mostly happens when new folks are introduced to an area: we become more like you and you become more like us.
I believe that MaryQueenOfScotts mentioned that there was no bar in town and that folks tended to congregate at homes and such. I tend to be quite a social person and find that bars are great places for people to just 'hang out'. I would probably look into opening either a bar or other social center where folks meet and talk and, hopefully, play some good pool while downing a pint of local brew... I wonder if you would be adverse to having a drink with me at such a place?
michael
12:27 PM
I really can't keep up with all the different parts of this Blog - join this Yahoo Group and we can talk, and Zack (I am sure will be there as well - Zack also has a forum to post questions to which is good also, up to you.... if you want to grill us on anything from 'What the Heck are you doing?' to 'Libertarianism is Stupid!', we will be happy to oblige... there.
I created a Yahoo Group expressly for the purpose of discussing items with Grafonites, if anyone cares to participate or lurk, it could be very enlightening... I do not know if anyone from Grafton will join up...
Group name: GraftonCrisis
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GraftonCrisis
Group email: GraftonCrisis@yahoogroups.com
Zacks Forum:
http://forum.freecountyproject.com/index.php?board=8
thank you for your time...
michael
8:43 PM
What the town residents need to due is contact out of state residents so that they know what the heck is going on in town. I know if my parents knew what was going on they would have attended the last town meeting!!
9:40 PM
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