Free State Project
Looks like the Free State Project knows about this blog and savegrafton.org.
This site/blog is only looking to inform residents of Grafton, NH about plans being made by FreeStateProject members to "take over" the town. Discussion between FreeStateProject members and Grafton residents is encouraged. Anyone can post a comment.
155 Comments:
Zack Bass might be over the top, but as 'over the top' people go, he has one advantage: he wants freedom, even for the people in Grafton... even for the person who started this blog. There are libertarians who are rough around the edges and there are dictators who are rough around the edges. Which would you rather have as a neighbor?
9:28 PM
I like the neighbors I have now.
11:12 AM
At least Larry has the BALLS to be out and open about things, unlike you who has to hide behind an anonymous domain name registration and a Tripod website.
1:26 PM
I thought Libertopians cared about/respected privacy.
Zack/Larry is not hiding who he is on the internet very well, if we was trying at all. Have you checked out Zack's yahoo/fsp profile? Check out what he lists as his website. I did not expose anything. What are you upset about?
Larry does use Zack Bass as an alias in REAL LIFE. Wonder why he does not use his REAL NAME? I don't use an alias in REAL LIFE. So, does that make Larry/Zack a coward in real life?
I try not to put my personal infomation out on the Internet, I suggest you do the same. If that makes me an Internet coward, so be it.
If you want to know who I am you should move to Grafton. I am not hiding.
2:30 PM
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2:37 PM
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2:47 PM
> Larry does use Zack Bass as an alias in REAL LIFE.
Really? Show me a place where he does.
2:50 PM
> I like the neighbors I have now.
Aww. Then I guess you'll just have to move.
2:51 PM
>> Larry does use Zack Bass as an alias in REAL LIFE.
>Really? Show me a place where he does.
http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/freetown.jsp
Do you know what name he uses when he is in Grafton?
Have you ever met Larry in person?
3:06 PM
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3:08 PM
>> I like the neighbors I have now.
>Aww. Then I guess you'll just have to move.
Why?
3:10 PM
>There are libertarians who are rough around the edges and there are dictators who are rough around the edges.
You forgot about libertopian dictators who are rough around the edges.
3:13 PM
> Have you ever met Larry in person?
Yep. As Larry.
> Guess that makes you one too, since you are posting as Anonymous.
Good, you admit it.
> Why?
You seem to hate one person so much as to put up a hate website about him. Why wouldn't you move if he came to town?
3:28 PM
Here's some more info on Larry Pendarvis' CHILD PORN CHARGES.
3:59 PM
>You seem to hate one person so much as to put up a hate website about him.
No. I don't hate Larry. I don't know Larry. Larry is the hater. I have read the venom Zack spews. He labeled the locals as 'shitheads' and 'fuckwads' before he even had the town picked. Rembember his ShitHead list? http://www.fnhp.com/thelist/
He started the attack websites. This website is not about Larry, it is about the FTP. I choose to target Larry because he is the example of what I do not want coming to Grafton. I am sure there are FTPers that would make great Grafton residents, but I don't think Larry is one of them. I could have put up all the research on each of the FTPers that has stated they plan on coming to Grafton, but chose only to use Larry for now. If FTPers are coming to Grafton, I will judge them as individuals, but I will not vote for them. I know what they think of me. They judged me without knowing anything about me, and they did it in public.
I don't want to know Larry. I don't want Larry, or any of his cronies to have anything to do with running Grafton. We do fine without them. Have you ever visited Grafton? I think the FTPers are making assumptions so bad, they are not even wrong.
>Why wouldn't you move if he came to town?
I don't know where you are from, but in New England people usually do not just pick up and move because they do not like a neighbor. I like Grafton. That is why I choose to live here.
Are you coming just because someone told you to?
Who's the boss of you?
Are you a person, or are you a sheep?
4:03 PM
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4:07 PM
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4:35 PM
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6:48 PM
>Here's some more info on Larry Pendarvis' CHILD PORN CHARGES.
Thanks, that helps alot. His real name isn't even Larry! I am just looking for the truth. Here is a link to a description of how he got off: http://www.sptimes.com/News/030300/TampaBay/Words_can_t_prescribe.shtml
The trial was on Court TV. I need to get a copy of that, and I will. So, Lawrence would have got 7 years if the prosecuter didn't call him a pervert. Hopefully Tim Condon will defend him from now on. I guess I need to update savegrafton.org. Any suggestions?
Oh, funny thing. When I did a google search with zack's real name, pendarvis.org shows up on the results page as a sponsor link. Too funny.
7:21 PM
Whatever!
9:29 PM
>I seem to recognise this writing style. I don't think it is even someone from Grafton. I believe it is actually Chuck/Krista..... how are things going in Delaware?
I seem to recognise this writing style. I believe it is Mike. How are things going over in Leb?
7:59 AM
How come FSP people keep trying to guess who started save grafton? Who cares? Doesn't anyone realize that families with real lives and children live in Grafton? REAL PEOPLE. People who have not been seeking people to come to town to "free" them. Maybe people in Grafton already liked it,there are no dictators here. But there may be if people like Zack/Larry come and try to force his views on the locals. It sounds like people joining the free town project HATE where they are from.
9:06 AM
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9:51 AM
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10:06 AM
So, No FSP or FTPers will answer the question:
What do you disagree with about the savegrafton.org site or blog?
Please be specific. I tried not to put a spin on the site, and only used FTP/FSPers own words. Do you disagree with your own words or the truth?
10:11 AM
I can't say that I like Larry, but he doesn't disqualify the fact that the Free Town Project is going to do a world of good for Grafton. I'd rather he not come to NH at all.
8:43 PM
How can The Free Town Project do "a world of good" for the residents of Grafton? The FTP seems upset that savegrafton is here for the residents of Grafton. Many residents don't have computers and have NO idea about the upcoming "take over". I don't see how this group will do a world of good for a town that is already good. No one seems to be concerned about the 900+ people here in Grafton already. I also don't think many FTP people have kids.They don't talk like parents. They don't seem like folks who are very concerned about a safe environment for kids. I read someone on the FSP board mentioned starting up groups for kids like little league,etc. What parent would want their kid in a group run by people who affiliate with folks who hang around people who have been convicted of child pornography on his computer? How do we know many others are just like Larry and they just didn't get caught? How do we know Larry doesn't practice what he preaches? (donkey sex shows and incest)?It sounds like FTP wants to make Grafton a safe haven for people who want to break our current laws,some which may put local Grafton children at risk.
8:49 AM
Umm, Larry isn't even moving to Grafton. Hasn't been for awhile. I don't see the purpose of this website other than to mislead people by not telling them that his conviction was overturned on appeal.
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2:56 PM
nice
3:19 PM
"people who affiliate with folks who hang around people who have been convicted of child pornography on his computer"
Well, at least that's only a couple degrees of seperation.
I shook Bill Clinton's hand. Does that somehow associate me with sleeping with interns?
Zack is an individual. We are all individuals. We do not have a group mentality and do not 'follow' others. We follow our own path based on our own reasoning. A few people did some leg work and narrowed our search down to Grafton as the best potential place for freedom. It's up to each individual to decide if they agree with this sentiment.
Zack is merely one of the individuals that agrees.
Or not, as someone said he's not even planning on moving to Grafton. I thought he was focussed on a Wyoming county.
11:33 AM
OK..Congrats on shaking Clinton's hand! Anyway,if you keep the company of people like larry,then you will be lumped in together. As a parent i won't be able to tell if others with larry are "ok" or also love "victimless" crimes. This idea of "victimless" crimes is totally subjective. ftp doesn't mind oppressing the people of grafton. they think they are smarter than most residents. they think they need to tell us the "right" way to live. If all you did was shake larry's hand,i wouldn't say anything. But many fsp and ftp people LOVE larry and his bulls**t!Larry came to grafton already. He runs that website for ftp. It was his idea to use that bee to symbolize ftp. ftp is the bee and grafton is the paralyzed victim that the bee lays its eggs on!!Larry has LOTS to do with choosing Grafton. The people who were with him on the grafton trip are OK with him and his bully tactics. If larry isn't speaking for ftp,then let someone else speak for it! I wouldn't say a peep about some libertarians moving to grafton. there already are libertarians in grafton. BUT Larry has an agenda, all people involved in any way with larry and the ftp have the agenda of TAKING OVER grafton. they all also agreed not to say this to the residents until it was really too late.
1:43 PM
What does Clinton having an affair with an intern have to do with a man convicted of kiddie porn? I am not worried about 2 adults having sex. I am opposed to people who like to look at kiddie porn, and maybe worse..
1:48 PM
What does Clinton having an affair with an intern have to do with a man convicted of kiddie porn? I am not worried about 2 adults having sex. I am opposed to people who like to look at kiddie porn, and maybe worse..
1:48 PM
we do not have a group mentality..hahahahahahaha good one. man,that is FUNNY.
1:49 PM
Yes, Larry is coming to get you all. Better look under the bed for him before you go to sleep, anonymous coward of the Save Grafton cause.
4:28 PM
And hey, we're still moving to Grafton no matter what. And we plan to vote our own people in. Whatcha gonna do?
4:32 PM
What are 'we' going to do? I think it is clear --
talk to Grafton and other NH residents about
what the implications are of a libertarian
utopia is and about the character of some
of its proponents.
/s/ NHObserver
11:36 AM
You mean _one_ of it's proponents. Don't you? I mean you obviously seem to be, to put it mildly, infatuated with a certain person. The one hat you only seem to judge by his internet personality and the incomplete information about his criminal case?
I mean, if his entire purpose is just be be an inciteful troll for the FSP...don't you think he's done his job by you creating this website/blog? Think about it.
3:00 PM
All I can say is give the whole lot of them one winter here...they'll beat feet out of here in mid-January. Reminds me of the whole lot of flatlanders who bought up land in a panic in 1999 for pre-Y2K fears, tossed a trailer on, and then never showed their fool heads in these parts again.
5:09 PM
And if we "survive" the winter, what then? What is your next course of action?
6:56 PM
>>And hey, we're still moving to Grafton no matter what. And we plan to vote our own people in. Whatcha gonna do?>>
I say good luck! You obviously are totally unfamiliar with the infighting, long-running feuds, and numerous factions that have dominated the town for decades. Before you attempt to muscle your way in and "take over" the town, you'll have to deal with the likes of those who have been running it -- and duking it out -- for so long. If you've done your research, you already know that the Joyces and Neufels of this town don't give up too easily.
It sounds like you've never lived in a town with a population this small..so come on down, give it a try. At the very least, you'll provide us with some cheap entertainment...it will be almost as much fun as mud wrestling, and no satellite dish is necessary. Can't wait!
To long-time Graftonites: doesn't this all just sound like a repeat of when Neil Kenny moved into town and thought he would civilize us natives?
12:23 PM
Hello-Thanks for your insight about libertarians. If you don't know about the free town projects intent to "Take over" (their words), then I suggest you do some research. That is their intention. They may not represent you, but they represent a group of like minded libertarians who intend to out vote the town majority,and "take over". They have said TERRIBLE things about the town and the people in the town. The free state project CLAIMS they are not affiliated with the free town project. Maybe that is why you don't know all the ugly details of the free town project? I understand what 'victimless' means. BUT some members of the free town project believe that beatiality,dueling and incest are 'victimless'.
11:04 AM
> beatiality,dueling and incest are 'victimless'.
Yep. Not that I, as a future resident of Grafton, would do such things.
11:49 AM
> who intend to out vote the town majority,and "take over"
And that is not our right? To take over politically? Seems like it's a pretty normal thing to me!
> They have said TERRIBLE things about the town and the people in the town.
Please show me where anyone said bad things about the Town of Grafton and people as a whole.
11:53 AM
You should really research the Free Town Project and what it stands for and what the people in FTP say!
1:13 PM
It says that they want to move to a place where freedom is embraced and they want to keep it that way. That's all.
6:19 PM
RESEARCH
9:47 PM
What's there to research?
10:47 PM
"...some members of the free town project believe that beastiality, dueling and incest are 'victimless'."
All three of those items have no 'victim' in respect to human rights - this does not mean that they are to be 'socially acceptable', people are free to determine what is socially/culturally acceptable and act accordingly as they see fit. Take, for example, beastiality. No human rights were violated so the state has no interest in such an endeavor. I, on the other hand, think such a thing is disgusting and gross. So, I refuse to associate with said person, I make sure others also know about their practices, I refuse to patronize their place of business and refuse to sell my wares to them. So far, no rights have been violated, no violence perpetrated upon anyone - BUT, the practice has been effectively discouraged through social means - which happens to be the ONLY way that behaviors can effectively be changed... socially.
Incest: I do want to clarify something about a term you used: incest. Incest is having sexual relations with a blood related person... it does not imply relations with an underage person. That would be child molestation, not incest. Please tell me how a 24 yr old male and his 27 yr old female sister, if they decide they are attracted to each other and proceed in such a manner, violates any rights?
Dueling: Dueling implies two CONSENTING adults volunarily chosing to settle a disagreement or item of honor through fighting. This fighting can involve a variety of weapons, and may or may not be 'to the death' - it could easily be 'to first blood drawn', 'until you say uncle' , etc. Boxing, Judo, Karate, fencing, etc are all forms of dueling. Considering that both parties volunarily agree to a duel, there can be no victim! Even if there is a death involved and consent has been given as to 'to the death', there is no victim.
please excuse my ranting, I tend to be quite talkative.
yes, I am a member of the Free Town Project - AND I have not ever said anything 'bad' or insultive against any citizen of Grafton. I do not desire to change the way any person in Grafton lives their lives UNLESS they do so by forcing me to pay for their projects through using taxation etc or they insist on how I can build on my own property or what I can do upon my property. Live and let live is fine by me.
12:59 PM
(sarcasm on) i am convinced now. ftp will be GREAT for Grafton. (sarcasm off)
2:28 PM
No need for sarcasm.
2:31 PM
What about calling Grafton residents sh*theads and f*ckwads??
2:32 PM
Grafton residents as a whole were never EVER addressed as "shitheads" and or "fuckwads". I think you better go back and check your "research" again.
6:26 PM
Zack is a very colorful person, and he doesn't hold back his feelings about those who would oppress him. I have only seen him use the terms 'shitheads' or 'f*ckwads' in reference to people who would use the force of government to coerce others to abide by their wishes. For example, a shithead would be the person who would enact zoning regulations over other peoples private property. Another example would be someone who would use government to make a law which creates a 'criminal' of a person that does not violate other persons rights: voting for passage of a 'seatbelt law' for instance, or determining what foods or substances one is 'legally allowed' to ingest or use upon their own bodies. Restricting gun ownership is a prime example also of the actions of 'shitheads'.
definition: 'shithead' or 'f*ckwad'
a person who seeks to control the innocent behavior of others through use of governmental force. Innocent behavior is that which directly harms no one but possibly the actor in question.
People have a right to be stupid as long as they are allowed to suffer the natural consequences for their actions. To deprive people of this makes them dependent and treats people as children, or slaves.
hope this helps...
4:44 AM
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Anonymous said...
If you've done your research, you already know that the Joyces and Neufels of this town don't give up too easily.
----------
I don't understand the significance of this information. Please could somebody explain what these "Joyces and Neufels" will be giving up? Or why they will be in competition with any FSP/FTP activists?
- Mark
2:18 AM
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Anonymous said...
So, No FSP or FTPers will answer the question:
What do you disagree with about the savegrafton.org site or blog?
Please be specific. I tried not to put a spin on the site, and only used FTP/FSPers own words. Do you disagree with your own words or the truth?
-------------
Ad Hominem attack.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem
Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."
2:23 AM
For example, an ad hominem:
--------------
Anonymous said...
How can The Free Town Project do "a world of good" for the residents of Grafton? The FTP seems upset that savegrafton is here for the residents of Grafton. Many residents don't have computers and have NO idea about the upcoming "take over". I don't see how this group will do a world of good for a town that is already good. No one seems to be concerned about the 900+ people here in Grafton already. I also don't think many FTP people have kids.They don't talk like parents. They don't seem like folks who are very concerned about a safe environment for kids. I read someone on the FSP board mentioned starting up groups for kids like little league,etc. What parent would want their kid in a group run by people who affiliate with folks who hang around people who have been convicted of child pornography on his computer? How do we know many others are just like Larry and they just didn't get caught? How do we know Larry doesn't practice what he preaches? (donkey sex shows and incest)?It sounds like FTP wants to make Grafton a safe haven for people who want to break our current laws,some which may put local Grafton children at risk.
5:49 AM
----------------
I love this part:
"What parent would want their kid in a group run by people who affiliate with folks who hang around people who have been convicted of child pornography on his computer?"
Is there's still time to connect Kevin Bacon to all of this? Maybe add a Catholic priest in there as a degree? :O)
- Mark
2:28 AM
Mark....please....go back to the freestate forum unless you are moving to NH and/or Grafton. OK???
10:47 AM
Mark, are you a parent?
10:48 AM
"Ad Hominem attack"
Be specific-- point out an example.
11:46 AM
"Grafton residents as a whole were never EVER addressed as "shitheads" and or "fuckwads". I think you better go back and check your "research" again."
No one claimed all residents of Grafton where called "shitheads" and "fuckwads". Read what was wrote.
11:53 AM
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Anonymous said...
Mark....please....go back to the freestate forum unless you are moving to NH and/or Grafton. OK???
----------
Excuse me? And who are you again?
- Mark
5:41 AM
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Anonymous said...
Mark, are you a parent?
-------------
No, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.
- Mark, awaiting eventual ad hominem attack based on my not having welfare-leeching spawn
5:44 AM
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Anonymous said...
"Ad Hominem attack"
Be specific-- point out an example.
-------------
I provided an example. I think I'm gonna have to check that water in Grafton before I drill a well on my property.
- Mark
5:46 AM
Provide an example of an "Ad Hominem attack" on this web site.
I don't need you to explain what an "Ad Hominem attack" is. I know how google works.
11:19 AM
Hey Grafton shitbags. THE PLAN IS TO TAKE YOU OVER BY FORCE! Don't get confused. I'm an FSP member and we talk about it all the time. We also formulate stories to spoon-feed this blog and twist your little hillbilly minds into our way of thinking. Haha, you are puppets.
You haven't had an original complaint or issue, that has not been planted by an FSP representative since the first week of inception. The funny thing is, I can tell you this now, and still be in control of you by the end of the day. The lights are a little dim in Grafton, and they will soon go out!
There is no plan to move to Grafton. Do you understand that shitbags?? Understand, when I say "shitbags" I'm talking about everyone in NH, not just Grafton. The plan is to TAKE OVER, migration is not necessary, who the fuck would live in Grafton on purpose anyway? BTW, NH wasn't chosen because it is the most " free state" it was chosen because the people who occupy it are generally the most ignorant residents that occupy any state and they are as defenseless as school girls when it comes to politics. You are completly predictable with every action you take. This blog is all you can do to defend yourselves against the impending take over?? That is why Grafton was chosen. Do you think the same response would be offered out west??? Not a chance, they would have skinned us alive for throwing Zack at them, but you people are great, you take it right in the ass and ask for more. Zack was great wasn't he?? I don't think anyone could have done it better. You responded with the usual predictability, just like what was planned. Haha, boy, it was beautiful!
Grafton will be TAKEN OVER! don't you worry about that. The snare has already been tripped by your very own top official. It's all over but the publicity for the next endeavor. This will go down in history as one of the most profound political coups in America's history, and ya'll git to be a part of it, so, look alive! Everyone is watching.
9:48 PM
thought-provoking, mootable pv. just my thoughts, well anyways gl & be chipper is what i say
5:07 PM
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